September 19, 2008
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Abortion and the Concept of Moral Consistency
Gender Selection and Abortion | TheTheologiansCafe’s
Xanga Site – WeblogThe above links to a thread that began a discussion about if and when it is OK morally to have an abortion. The question was: “Do you support a woman’s right to abort an unborn baby in order to select a baby’s gender?”
I want to analyze a tangential point. In a number of comments in reply to this issue people brought up the idea that you can’t be Pro Choice but still feel that abortion for the sake of gender selection is wrong. That to believe both makes you morally inconsistent. I came across this side argument through reading my friend’s blog that has a discussion about it here: Morals or not? | DarkAngelKat00′s Xanga Site – Weblog She talks more about the specific idea of gender selection and moral consistency.
I don’t really want to get into depth about the abortion topic itself. Honestly I’m on the fence about this particular instance of abortion rights. It strikes me as wrong not because the abortion itself is wrong but because of the sexism it reflects in that society. I can also as a thought experiment imagine a crazy society where gender selection abortion makes sense. Say for example if in the far future some crazy person invents some virus and unleashes it on the atmosphere that makes it so that all males born in the society during a certain time period are born with numerous physical deformations, mental illnesses, and are forever in agonizing pain throughout their lives, and further more increases their capacity for violence and decreases their compassion and understanding. I would say then that gender selection abortion is fine. So I don’t want to make a blanket statement against it. Culture and circumstances differ and some scenario I might not have thought of might make it make sense in a particular circumstance. But yeah in general I find the idea unsettling for much the reasons that Katie describes in her blog.
No, what I really want to talk about though is not that, but my vehement objection to what I see as a VERY flawed form of argument. This idea of moral inconsistency arising from your objection to abortion in this case but your support of it in general. I think it’s crazy
This isn’t the first time it’s come up. It happens far too frequently in fact. Basically what happens is that Pro-Life people argue that Pro-Choice means that you must support a woman’s right to choose abortion under every circumstance. That that’s what “choice” means. If you say you are pro-choice but under certain circumstances women shouldn’t choose abortion, then the argument goes, you aren’t really pro-choice at all.
Here’s the argument in the words of one of the commentators on TheTheologiansCafe:
“Anyone anyone anyone who makes the absurd claim that they are “ProChoice” must defend to the last the right to abort a baby for any reason…uh…that’s what ProChoice means. If you claim to be ProChoice and then start speaking about poor
choices – whoops! Your ProLife all of the sudden! You better start
voting Republican you disingenuous, don’t know what you stand for,
flipflopper!!” -AliasUndercoverAnd you have to admit it sounds good doesn’t it? Sounds right. Choice is choice after all. How can you be against some but not others. Flip flopper!!
But is this really true? If you believe abortions are ok some of the time but not all of the time are you morally inconsistent?
Actually it is not.
The problem here is one of argument “framing”. Here the pro-life side has defined pro-choice in the terms that it desires it to be. It has painted the idea of pro-choice as an absolutist principle. The reason to do that is rather obvious really. When you frame an opponents position in terms of absolutes it becomes rather *easy* to argue against it. As we see here. I can say: “Hey you do you support aborting a baby at 9 months because you suddenly decide you’d prefer a child who has naturally slightly curlier hair than this baby is genetically inclined to have? No? Well then you’re not Pro-Choice! Ha! I WIN! W00T!!”
But that’s just patently absurd. Whoever said that being pro-choice meant you had to support every case of abortion!?!?
And in reality if you look at national poles you find that that’s quite clear. People who self describe themselves as pro-choice by and large DO NOT condone abortions under any and all circumstances. What they are, for the most part, opposed to is having a nationwide law that outlaws abortion in general and makes it a crime akin to murder.
Still having trouble understanding the pro-choice position? Does it still seem inconsistent to you? Think of it this way:
I don’t believe there should be a law or prohibition against lying in general. I think it’s an individual’s right to choose when to lie and when not to lie. So in a sense I could be said to be “pro-choice” with regards to lying. But does that mean that I think lying is never morally repugnant? No! Of course not! There’s been PLENTY of times I’ve seen people lie and thought they were doing something terribly wrong and morally reprehensible. But there have also been times when I think a lie was the right thing to do. I would not want my right to lie restricted on a blanket level by constitutional law. That would be ridiculous.
And to take it further I am even not opposed to outlawing lying under certain circumstances. We have laws for example against lying under oath that can land you in prison or get you impeached if you are the President and whatnot. You aren’t allowed to lie to an officer of the law either. I’m not opposed to rules against lying. I’m not opposed to non-government based social punishment for lying too. I expect teachers in schools to punish children for lying frivolously. I expect churches to teach against lying as if it were a sin and a thing to be avoided in general. And I expect businesses to frown upon employees lying to further the aims of the company. And yet… I’m definitely pro-choice with regards to lying. Try to make a law against lying in general and I will take to the streets in protest. The right to lie is an important individual right for me.
Abortion is the same. I’m pro-choice. It ought not be the original principal of the government that all abortion is fundamentally wrong and illegal. I can see certain cases of abortion being illegal and the people who exercise it in those cases being punished, within reason, commiserate to their crime. As to what that punishment should be, is a matter for a great deal of social debate and analysis of the specific cases involved. But I would rarely think that an abortion should be treated on the same level as murder in the first degree.
Interestingly though that brings me to another classical argument “framing” example ironically on the other side of the aisle. It’s not uncommon for pro-Choice people to “frame” the argument of pro-Life people as believing that any and all abortions should be treated as First Degree Murder cases. That the women and the doctors involved should all be locked up for life and/or executed!
But of course most pro-Life people aren’t nearly that extreme. Most people’s morals aren’t that cut and dry. Rather most self-proclaimed pro-Life people believe in shades of gray. They believe that most abortions are wrong and they believe that this “wrongness” needs to be enshrined and protected through the law. But they might think a certain case is not as bad as another, is more understandable and should be afforded leeway. Most don’t think most abortions should be treated as first degree murder trials. Rather they just fear that without legally outlawing abortions people will begin to do them frivolously. That there won’t be any controls whatsoever. They fear that no one will protect the rights of unborn children who cannot speak for themselves. These positions should not be trivialized and turned into the assumption that all people who are pro-life and blood thirsty zealots ready to execute every doctor or mother who ever made that tough decision to abort a child.
Don’t get me wrong. There very well may BE people who think like this. Just as indeed there are people who really believe that a fetus should be accorded no rights or recognition or protection prior to its birth because it is not a living or sentient entity but just a “thing”. It’s just that most people’s positions aren’t nearly that extreme. And we shouldn’t let those extreme views dominate the debate.
Note how even with something as fundamental as murder morals have shades of gray? Not all cases are treated the same by the body of the law or the implementation of those laws! We have different statutes. We have various degrees of murder. We have complex sentencing procedures. And not all killing of human beings is considered murder at all. Why? Because the people’s morals are ALWAYS gray. There’s no such thing as absolute inviolable principles. That doesn’t mean we all are corrupt entities, lacking in morals, rather it means that life is surprise, surprise, actually pretty damned complicated particularly when it comes to matters of morality.
The problem with the abortion debate has always been one of argument framing. Both sides believe so passionately about their positions that they frame the debate in terms that paint their opposition in the darkest light possible by stressing the most extreme sides. It enables them to focus on and stress differences in opinions between the sides, many of which in actuality don’t really exist between most individuals.
Of course as some politicians have started to assert, including a certain Presidential candidate I am voting for, it makes far more sense for us to cast aside these childish arguments and focus on those areas on which we can, most of us anyway, agree. If we stop playing stupid argument framing games we’ll find that quite often most of us agree in terms of what is right and what is wrong on far more than we disagree. Of course, irony of irony, this Presidential candidate also happens to be the one who has been vilified as a monstrous baby killer in the media. Framing in action yet again. grrr
But do yourself a favor and read through the comments on that entry of theTheologiansCafe. What you’ll find as you find in a great many of specific abortion debates that almost everyone who commented has said pretty much the same thing.We aren’t nearly as divided as you think we are
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Comments (10)
Amazing post. Very well-thought.
“Say for example if in the far future some crazy person invents some virus and unleashes it on the atmosphere that makes it so that all males born in the society during a certain time period are born with numerous physical deformations, mental illnesses, and are forever in agonizing pain throughout their lives, and further more increases their capacity for violence and decreases their compassion and understanding. I would say then that gender selection abortion is fine.”
Sounds like the beginning of a superhit harem anime to me.
I’m pro-choice.I believe abotion is ok all the time, for any reason.Period.
Well stated, as usual. Honestly, I usually try to avoid debates on thetheologianscafe. Many of the people on there are just idiots with strong opinions. ill-conceived, logically flawed, strong opinions.
Personally, I find the idea of designer children far more reprehensible than that of abortion. Abortion is there for people who don’t want or can’t manage having a child. Not to pick and choose the one you like best. Imagine having that talk with the kids, “You all should be grateful to be here. Your other potential siblings got the axe because they just weren’t up to par. Do you really want to make us regret not making that decision about you?”
@fullmetalbunny - LOL! I’ve seen a lot of harem anime. Maybe that’s where I got that idea subconsciously! ^_^
@nikki_eats_her_veggies - I think it should be legal almost all the time, but I’m not ready to make that wide a blanket moral judgment on it in either direction. Lots of legal things are nevertheless not in all cases moral.
@Celestial_Rose2002 - Thanks! ^_^
@elvesdoitbetter - you’re right. I also find that idea terrifying and it’s what immediately came to mind. We’re going to have the ability to do this sooner rather than later. In a lot of ways we already do it just hasn’t caught on. But it’s scary to think that we might end up trending children based on media influenced aesthetics and ending up with all of us being sickeningly twistedly the same. Gender is only the smallest case. Hair color and type. Height. Metabolism. Skin color. Sexual orientation. Facial features. Intellect. Etc. etc. What happens when it’s cheap and easy to control these things in our children? And who is going to tell these parents that they aren’t allowed to make their children stronger, smarter, and more beautiful? Especially when the wealthier families will find a way to do it whether it is legal or not. It’s a scary thought…
@elvesdoitbetter - Exactly.
Thanks for writing this post, Kell. ^_^ It was insanely awesome and like I said earlier, fucking great. You’re a damn fine writer.
I think you were trying to trick us! having the subject line be about something and your actual blog about 3 paragraphs deep is really about something else! haha you just wanted to see who actually reads your blog all the way through! j/k ^_^ but i do think this would be a great test blog to see if people read it or not.
i think everything is a gray area, what is right and what is wrong? It depends on the person and how they were taught as they grew up. it depends on what you were exposed to.
when my mother was growing up in malaysia she knew about the one child rule in china, a lot of times if a family had a girl (in china there is no such thing as abortion), the little baby girl would be taken to a cave out in the country side and left there to die because they wanted a boy! that made me sad! of course nicer families would put them up for adoption (which is why there are so many baby asian girls for adoption)
my friend L’s husband has this weird genetic thing that is only passed down through the famales which affects males in the family. Her husand doesn’t have sweat glades and can’t sweat to cool himself down and some other things i can’t remember. If she and him were to have only boys, then the genetic problem will end with him since he can’t pass it down to a boy, and no one down from them in the family tree will ever have to suffer again from this. That’s why she’s going to go through vetro insemation *sp?* to have only boys. It’s not that she doesn’t want a girl it’s just that it would be smart for them to have a boys. I bet when they have their first grandduaghter they will spoil her rotton! ^_^
the lying example is a little different than this subject though because lying can be harmless or not harmless where as abortion there is a life hanging in the balance.
Pro-choice is, by definition, not automatically pro-abortion . . . though I can certainly understand that some people really would need a thousand words of carefully considered argument to bring this to their attention.
@raindrops23 - Your example is interesting in that the distinction between postmodernism and moral relativism is not immediately apparent.
@nephyo - That and it can go horribly awry. We all remember the Asgard. We know what happens when you start messing too much with genetics – you clone yourself so many times your race is dying out (since you’re all, essentially, horribly inbred) and you have to teleport the poo out of your body because all the alterations left you without a way to get rid of waste.
I’ve got to agree with you. I’m pro-Choice BUT, abortion for the sake of gender selection seems like a very frivolous decision to me. It seems like the much simpler decision would be to go to a fertility doctor and have eggs and sperm combined in a lab to get the desired sex and incidentally weed out any sluggish sperm to get the best possible baby. On other hand, if people select to heavily for a specific sex, who’s to say that baby will be able to find a spouse when the time comes? Choosing abortion for the sake of gender does not seem to be the same argument as pro-Choice at all. It seems to be an easy out. Besides, isn’t successive abortion bad for your health and make it difficult to conceive at a later date? Abortion for gender selection seems like a poor choice all around.